WEBVTT Curt Hammond (he/him): We've got a hard stop by, 11 o'clock today. I want to be really respectful of everyone's time. Curt Hammond (he/him): And just a reminder, as you're coming in, we are recording this. Curt Hammond (he/him): For those who are unable to join us, so you'll be clicking a little notice there, probably twice, we're recording on Zoom, and then we've got an otter in as well, so thank you for that. Curt Hammond (he/him): You are welcome to turn your cameras on if you like, you're welcome to keep them off, whatever… Curt Hammond (he/him): is gonna feed you energy today. We're looking forward to building just a little bit of community for our time together. Curt Hammond (he/him): I see some familiar faces. Curt Hammond (he/him): And we'll give people a minute. Good morning, Mira. Curt Hammond (he/him): Good to see you. Curt Hammond (he/him): Excellent. Curt Hammond (he/him): So we'll let people join, and then we will… Mira Clarke, Action Read: Sorry, I was… No. …logged out. Curt Hammond (he/him): Good to see everyone. And again, you're welcome to, as you're interested, turn on your cameras. We'll leave our mics off, however, as… and we'll chat about this. We're looking forward to a really good discussion with our Curt Hammond (he/him): Two really smart guests, and, looking forward to learning from them. So, as you have questions, we can use the chat, or I invite you just to jump right in. Curt Hammond (he/him): Excellent. Perfect. Curt Hammond (he/him): All right. Well, why don't we jump in? People are gonna join us as they can. Let's just say we want to be… Curt Hammond (he/him): We want to be really respectful of everyone's time, so I'll say officially good morning, and thank you for joining us at the first Oak Tree Project Learning Lab, session number one. We are so excited about this. Curt Hammond (he/him): Will's gonna give us some background on how we got here and what we hope to accomplish. Everything, of course, in Oak Tree is in service to the good work that charities are doing in the community, and we are just grateful and excited and hopeful that these conversations can be adding some value into your good work. Curt Hammond (he/him): My name is Kurt Hammond, I'm the President and Service Champion at For Simple Words, and we have the honor of hosting and facilitating the sessions. There are three sessions, today, and then next Wednesday, and the following Wednesday. Curt Hammond (he/him): And today's first session is around building resilient teams in the age of AI, and I think Curt Hammond (he/him): What we've heard in our oak tree feedback is that those are two challenges and opportunities that charities in Wellington Curt Hammond (he/him): Guelph and across the country, quite frankly, are facing, so we thought we'd draw on two really smart people and help us unpack that a little bit. Curt Hammond (he/him): And I want to remind us today that our goal for this is to perhaps Curt Hammond (he/him): plant this idea that as we think about our team's well-being, and we think about adopting new technologies like AI, there's a lot of similarities in those two things. And in fact, we're going to be exploring how the same approach can maybe help us build more resilient teams, and help us embrace new technologies Curt Hammond (he/him): Like AI. And the other thing we really, really want to enforce, because we've heard this loud and clear, is this is starting from the work you're already doing. There'll be some ideas and suggestions today, but we really want to build on, and we know that your organizations are stretched to the absolute limit. Curt Hammond (he/him): And today is about building all the great things you're doing, as opposed to introducing a bunch of new things. So, I want to ground us in that. A reminder, we are recording the session for those who have signed up but are unable to join us. We'll be sending those links out after the third session. Curt Hammond (he/him): And before I get to the agenda, I just want to give us… I want to take a moment just to pause, and we'll do a territorial acknowledgement. And I invite us just to sit in this for a moment or two. It's really… these are, as you know, these are important conversations. Curt Hammond (he/him): And, I think good grounding for our conversations, quite frankly, around what resilience and… Curt Hammond (he/him): adapting new technologies look like. So I want to remind us that we're coming together today from across the province. Curt Hammond (he/him): Today I'm standing on the traditional territories of the Mississauga and Haudenosaunee. Curt Hammond (he/him): And I want to remind us that no matter where we work, no matter where we live, no matter where we play, there were peoples, cultures, and traditions on these very lands long before we were. Curt Hammond (he/him): And these wise peoples did their best to help us steward our land, our water, and our air. Curt Hammond (he/him): Now, unfortunately, we have done a terrible job at listening to their wisdom, and our environment is now paying that price. Curt Hammond (he/him): Dearly. Curt Hammond (he/him): And worse than that, in fact, it's much worse than that, we have yet to fully acknowledge that our communities are literally built on top of theirs. Curt Hammond (he/him): And we can no longer turn away from the social, emotional, and economic damage that we have done to generations of families across this country. Curt Hammond (he/him): I, myself, am just coming to terms with the word settler, and boy, is it uncomfortable for me, because I'm a good guy, and I'm trying to do good things, and this word settler is stretching me to understand my role in writing relations with Indigenous… our Indigenous sisters and brothers. Curt Hammond (he/him): So I'm on a journey. Curt Hammond (he/him): to learn some things, and the best way for me to learn things about Indigenous culture? Listen to Indigenous voices. Curt Hammond (he/him): On this same journey, I've also come to realize there's some things I need to unlearn about Indigenous culture, thanks to our Ontario education system. Best way for me to do that? Curt Hammond (he/him): Listen to Indigenous voices. Curt Hammond (he/him): I want to remind us that as we think about all the good work that your organizations do, the intent behind them, and the, you know, the core premise that I think we're all here today around to be in service to others, those are values that started with Indigenous culture. Curt Hammond (he/him): And we now have the honor of holding those values for just a little while. And as we hand our families and our organizations and communities off to future leaders, it's up to us to remind them that they are part of this continuum Curt Hammond (he/him): of Indigenous values. So these are big conversations, they're important conversations. I invite us all to be… take some time to reflect on that. And here in Canada in particular, we have to remember that truth must come before reconciliation. Curt Hammond (he/him): Thanks for that. And, in terms of our agenda today, and how we're going to spend our time, I'm going to hand things over to Will McTaggart, who is founder of Oak Tree Project, and he's going to just give us, the worldview from his lens, and then I'm going to formally… I'll introduce our speakers. Curt Hammond (he/him): And then we're going to hear from Jody, we're going to hear from Kevin, and then we're just going to have a great conversation around the similarities and maybe differences in building teams of resilience and adapting new technology. Curt Hammond (he/him): So, again, thank you all for being here. No matter how you've arrived, your presence is welcome, and we are grateful for your time. Will, over to you. Thank you for pulling us all together today, my friend. Will Mactaggart: Good morning, everybody. Will Mactaggart: So great, to talk to you this morning. Will Mactaggart: Oak Tree is on its 10th iteration. It's hard to believe. It all started back in 2014. Will Mactaggart: And, been on quite a journey. We, have really… you know. Will Mactaggart: heard a lot of stories over the years, because really, Oak Tree, at its roots, is about storytelling, and how important that is Will Mactaggart: As we get our messages across in life and understand each other in life. Will Mactaggart: So Oak Tree 10, we're going back to really our foundational goal, which is building stronger and more resilient organizations. Will Mactaggart: You know, to help Will Mactaggart: those who need help in our local community. And so we… you know, we just so appreciate the hard work that all of the charities in Guelph and Wellington are doing, and Oak Tree, we're just… Will Mactaggart: Turning our lens on how… supporting you guys, hearing your stories, and really, you know, this morning, It's, Will Mactaggart: I guess, helping by giving some tools, maybe, to help you guys get those stories out there and do the work that you do out there. Will Mactaggart: It's… The economic environment has been really tough. Will Mactaggart: This… this last year, I, in my day job, get to watch the markets move all over the place and try and make good decisions in that environment, but Will Mactaggart: It's… Will Mactaggart: It's constantly challenging, and this, you know, what we're hearing on the ground is that the, the tariff stuff has really made Will Mactaggart: made it difficult. And, so, very excited. Will Mactaggart: to be working through the Oak Tree project, and Will Mactaggart: we're amazed at the response this year. We, for the first time, well, we've never had over 20 applications before, and we had 29 this year. And it's just, Will Mactaggart: and 29 amazing applications. Our expert panel is working through them at the moment, and they'll be… Will Mactaggart: you know, some, some information back on that, in the month of November. It'll be a little bit… we're giving them a little bit more work than they expected, but that's great. We're, we're excited to see these applications and all the great ideas that the charities have brought forward, and, looking forward to see where the panel Will Mactaggart: Lands on those things. Will Mactaggart: So… Will Mactaggart: This morning's session, the Learning Lab, it's, really about providing you guys some support, whether or not you apply to Oak Tree, and everybody is welcome to attend these sessions, and so we're looking forward to, some really good conversations. Will Mactaggart: and storytelling, and, you know, just understanding all of this a little bit better. Will Mactaggart: This is the first of three sessions, and there'll be two more in the following weeks, and we really look forward to hearing, everything that, Will Mactaggart: Kurt and his, his team of, colleagues have put together to talk to us about. So with that, I will turn it over to Kurt and, and the, and the rest of the, the group this morning. Thank you so much. Curt Hammond (he/him): Excellent. Thank you, Will, and thanks to Will for 10 years ago having the vision to start Oak Tree, and he didn't mention this, just out of humility, but Oak Tree's donated, I think it's over $350,000 to local charities over the past 10 years, so that's a testament to Will and his commitment to building better community. Curt Hammond (he/him): We're also… and as Will said, we're really excited about these sessions. These are new for us. Curt Hammond (he/him): I want to transition into our conversation with a poll. I'm going to share it here. Curt Hammond (he/him): Simple question. Curt Hammond (he/him): And want open, honest answers from you. The question is, what feels more overwhelming right now? Supporting my team's well-being? Curt Hammond (he/him): figuring out AI… or both equally. No right or wrong answers on this one. Curt Hammond (he/him): But let's just do a quick poll, I'll give you… Curt Hammond (he/him): A quick second to respond to that, and then we'll debrief on that together… Curt Hammond (he/him): Give me another… I'm gonna count to 5… 4… 3… Curt Hammond (he/him): to get in there. I know there's a couple of you that haven't voted yet, want to hear your vote. Two and a half? Curt Hammond (he/him): One… half… Alright, I'm gonna close up there. Curt Hammond (he/him): And I'm going to share some results. So, everyone can see the results, yes? Curt Hammond (he/him): Yes? Curt Hammond (he/him): Good, thank you. So, either just turning off your mics or jumping into the chat, what are your, what are your reflections on what we're seeing here, on what feels more overwhelming? Curt Hammond (he/him): We've got 10% saying my team's well-being, 60% figuring out AI, and 30% Curt Hammond (he/him): Saying both equally. Thoughts? Any quick thoughts or reflections? Curt Hammond (he/him): Let me jump in with the chat, and or just turning off your mic. Sarah Haanstra: I can jump in. Curt Hammond (he/him): Please. Sarah Haanstra: Yeah, I, I think, Sarah Haanstra: Well, I think we've been… I think a lot of us have been figuring out team's well-being for a long time, so although it's something that we're kind of… Sarah Haanstra: always have our attention to. The AI thing just feels like it came so fast and furious. One day there was an AI, and the next day there was AI, and Sarah Haanstra: And what the heck are we supposed to do with it, so… Curt Hammond (he/him): Yeah, brilliant, okay. Sarah Haanstra: That sort of informed… I think it's the, yeah, the speed, and… and it's so much the unknown, whereas the, yeah, supporting our teams is… it's not easy, but we've been doing it for a long time. Curt Hammond (he/him): Yeah, nice, well said. I see Will's acknowledging, I see some nodding heads. Curt Hammond (he/him): Want to get to our speakers? Any other quick reflections on… Mira Clarke, Action Read: I have another perspective, too. I agree with you, Sarah, as well, but I also would add, in our case, we support folks with, people with low literacy and low digital literacy, so we are not only trying to figure it out ourselves in terms of how to integrate it appropriately within our Mira Clarke, Action Read: Staff, and, in a way that's… Mira Clarke, Action Read: You know, appropriate, and useful, and not gonna be taking up too much time, but we're also navigating, trying to support learners who are prey to scams constantly. Mira Clarke, Action Read: and we're supporting them with… through that, and we offer digital security workshops, and in fact, last year, we created this series of digital… no, like, literally, we launched it in March. Mira Clarke, Action Read: I think ChatGPT came out end of February or something, and we launched this in March, and honestly, half of it needed to be redone. Like, two weeks later. Or at least revised a little bit, yeah. Curt Hammond (he/him): 100%. 100%, Mira. I know that's good insight. Mira Clarke, Action Read: Yeah. Curt Hammond (he/him): And thank you for that, and thank you to Sarah, and thank you for participating in the poll. I want to stress, there's no right or wrong, no good or bad, only different, different is good here on these answers, right? And just a quick, very quick reflection, then I'm going to introduce our speakers. You know, four simple words, we've been walking alongside organizations for 20 years now, thinking about cultural transition. Curt Hammond (he/him): And I just really want to plant a seed that as we think about Curt Hammond (he/him): team resilience and team wellness, and we think about adopting AI, there's a lot of… Curt Hammond (he/him): parallels in how we can approach those conversations, and the mutual benefits, right? Because when we support our team, when our teams are resilient, they're more open to adapting and looking at technology as amplification rather than enemy, right? Curt Hammond (he/him): And when our teams are open and using technology, ideally, we're freeing up space from some of that medial work that takes up our time and energy and allows us Curt Hammond (he/him): to connect as humans more, either with one another or with our patients. So I want to plant a seed that there's a connection between the two. Curt Hammond (he/him): We want to start exploring that today, and we'll have a deeper dive in our following two sessions. As my good friend Luck Deep, reminds me in the work that we're doing around mattering and building cultures of mattering, you know. Curt Hammond (he/him): The key takeaway here for us is let's problematize systems, not people. Let's think about the systems that are creating these challenges, not the individuals in them, because the problem lies with the system Curt Hammond (he/him): Not the people. So, with that, let's jump in, and let's hear from two people way smarter than I am on this. And again, reminder, we're going to hear from Curt Hammond (he/him): Jody Lynn. Curt Hammond (he/him): she's going to have a quick, about 10-minute chat for us. We're going to hear from Kevin, and then we're just all going to have a conversation around these two con… these two similar and perhaps related conversations. So, let me introduce Curt Hammond (he/him): Jody Lynn Morris, who is the lead from Mental Health Services at Compass Community Services. Jody, thanks so much for being here today. Curt Hammond (he/him): Jody has her MSW and RSW, and she's a dedicated social worker specializing in trauma-informed care, clinical practice, and community wellness. Curt Hammond (he/him): She's passionate about empowering individuals and teams, fostering resilience. Curt Hammond (he/him): and advocating for compassion… I love this language… compassionate, client-centered approaches to mental health and well-being. I've had the chance to get to know Jody preparing for today, and she's got lots of great things to share. So, let's give a warm oak tree welcome to Jody Lynn Morris. Curt Hammond (he/him): Thank you, Jody. Jodi Lynn Morris: Good morning, everyone. Curt Hammond (he/him): Welcome, welcome. Jodi Lynn Morris: Thank you very much, Kurt, for, such a good introduction. Jodi Lynn Morris: I will disclose that ChatGPT did support the writing of that bio. Jodi Lynn Morris: Excellent. Jodi Lynn Morris: So, it was very… it was a bit easier with that. Curt Hammond (he/him): Let me pull up your slides here for you. Curt Hammond (he/him): There, can you see those? Jodi Lynn Morris: Yes, I can see them. Curt Hammond (he/him): All right, so I've spot… I put the spotlight on Jody Lynn, and you should be able to see her slides as well. So, Jody Lynn, over to you. Jodi Lynn Morris: Thank you. Jodi Lynn Morris: So, welcome! Like Kurt said, my name's Jodi Lin, I'm the Lead for Mental Health Services at Compass, and at the request of Oak Tree, I have put together, this presentation. It's called Thriving Together, Tools for Workplace Wellness and Resilient Teams. Jodi Lynn Morris: It was nice to see that, sort of, in the poll, that people maybe feel like they've got some, education and some experience around managing and supporting their staff, which is great. Jodi Lynn Morris: I'm not looking necessarily to reinvent the wheel, but maybe just bring things into your foresight, and just to remind you of a few things and sort of how to support, staff. Jodi Lynn Morris: And you can go to the next slide. Jodi Lynn Morris: Please… Curt Hammond (he/him): Nope. Jodi Lynn Morris: Thank you. So again, I just sort of want to highlight that we all experience stress. Specifically this presentation is about work. Jodi Lynn Morris: It is inevitable, there are deadlines, there are things that we want to accomplish and achieve, and so that pressure will mount, and so therefore stress will occur. Jodi Lynn Morris: So, the purpose of the presentation is really to increase an understanding of workplace wellness. Jodi Lynn Morris: how to build team resilience, and then have some practical strategies to support mental health. I do declare my bias here, that sort of I could spend a lot of time talking about practical strategies for mental health, so I have had to curb that in my presentation and make it a bit more equal. Jodi Lynn Morris: And as part of that, sort of, sort of in my presentation, I would encourage sort of reflection and sort of actually participating in some of the strategies, that I will be reviewing. And so there will be time for that next week. I think it's important for there be a… Jodi Lynn Morris: for there to have been an experiential, component, if we're going to be suggesting or recommending, these types of strategies to anyone, I think it's important to have your own experience, in sort of doing those things. Jodi Lynn Morris: So, next slide. Jodi Lynn Morris: So we define workplace wellness as sort of… it's an active pursuit of our physical, emotional, and mental health. And I… Jodi Lynn Morris: you know, I italicized active pursuit because it is an action. So again, we need to be doing, things in order to support, sort of, what would be deemed wellness in a workplace. Jodi Lynn Morris: That includes 3 areas, the 3 key areas. Jodi Lynn Morris: So, there's psychological safety, and there is legislation that is active, around this particular area, in Ontario. Jodi Lynn Morris: And psychological safety, when you sort of… really sort of look at it in a very… in a very finite way, is the ability to freely express your opinions at work without fear. Jodi Lynn Morris: And again, that, Jodi Lynn Morris: is a key component to sort of workplace wellness, where staff can come and sort of share ideas or share what may seem out of the box, and it is received in a way that they feel supported and heard. Jodi Lynn Morris: The second key area is work-life integration. Oftentimes, this is sort of talked about as work-life balance. I don't particularly like the word balance. I prefer the word integration. Jodi Lynn Morris: To talk about balance sort of seems to feel like it needs to be 50-50, it needs to sort of be on an even keel. Jodi Lynn Morris: I don't know if that's always realistic. I think there are times when work might outbalance, sort of, our personal life, or vice versa, where personal life may outbalance work. Jodi Lynn Morris: And so, how do you integrate that? How do you look at supporting the well-being of someone, encouraging productivity and their satisfaction in the work? Jodi Lynn Morris: And so what does that look like, and how do you integrate that in a way that is supportive of their wellness? Jodi Lynn Morris: And then the third component is emotional and physical health, and this is really about awareness, and sort of being aware of your physical and your mental, emotional health. Jodi Lynn Morris: And then what are we doing about it? So there's that word again about action, right? What are we doing? And we'll review, sort of, some of, you know, again, if you're eating… if you're eating a certain way and supporting your health in that way, that's a doing, right? If you're getting a certain number of hours of sleep, that's a doing. So again, I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel, I'm just looking to, sort of, what are we currently doing, and where is there Jodi Lynn Morris: An opportunity, to create some change. Jodi Lynn Morris: So, the next step is sort of to review what stress is and its impacts. Jodi Lynn Morris: So, and the definition that I found of stress was, sort of, stress arises when the demand outweighs control. So, when we have lots of projects on the go, and time is finite, out of control. Jodi Lynn Morris: Right? And we feel, sort of, that we are tied, and we have to do things like prioritize, and we have to do things like maybe something has to be put off to the side of our desk that we feel, you know, doesn't necessarily need to be there, or should not be there very long. Jodi Lynn Morris: So, again, I'm sure you're all aware, but there are some common stressors, that happen. So, that can be workload, it can be time pressures, as I've previously mentioned, it can be isolation, conflict, or a lack of recognition. Jodi Lynn Morris: And sort of the effects of stress, and I've… I've not listed very many, but the list is quite long. Headaches, fatigue, poor concentration, anxiety, withdrawal, we sometimes see absenteeism, or we see work, sort of, that's not being completed, productivity going down, and so on. Jodi Lynn Morris: And so there is a risk of burnout. There is… staff can feel… and burnout is sort of that last stage. Jodi Lynn Morris: You can start to see fatigue, you might see moral injury at times, where… when stress is sort of ongoing and chronic and remains unaddressed. Jodi Lynn Morris: And so, again, we'll talk about, sort of, how to manage that. Jodi Lynn Morris: So we… it's this concept with team resilience around, you know, it's bouncing forward. Jodi Lynn Morris: It's a concept that, sort of, I borrowed from, sort of, someone who's had a traumatic incident, and we look at, sort of, how they move forward, and sort of what the learning is from it, and not necessarily… once they're in recovery. Jodi Lynn Morris: And so, again, we want our teams to be resilient, and what does that mean? It means the ability to adapt, recover, from anything that may have been challenging, and to grow stronger as a result of those challenges. Jodi Lynn Morris: Challenges are often seen as very negative, they're difficult, they can be stressful, and they also provide an opportunity when you sit back and reflect on what did we learn? How did we grow? Have I learned a new skill? And so on. And so we want to sort of look at that. Jodi Lynn Morris: Building resistance, or building resilience, sorry, not resistance, yikes, yikes, that was a slip, really involves, sort of, this capacity, clarity, and connection piece. And so, how does the team do those things? Jodi Lynn Morris: And we'll be looking at those three things, more in depth next week. Jodi Lynn Morris: Key components, again, as sort of looking at team resilience, is making sure that you have a shared purpose and value. I don't doubt that if you have staff working for your organizations. Jodi Lynn Morris: that there is a shared value, they probably would not be working for your organization, if they didn't share that sort of value of what you're endeavoring to sort of support and change in the community. Jodi Lynn Morris: There's psychological safety popping up again, and so, again, that… that ability to speak forward, and sort of not fear, sort of, any of the reaction. Jodi Lynn Morris: Strong communication, within the team is a component that is, very important. Adaptability, again, and sort of… and then that mutual support piece and what that looks like. So we'll go into that a bit more. Curt Hammond (he/him): Excellent. About 2 minutes left, Jodi, if that's okay? Jodi Lynn Morris: Yep. Super. We can… I mean, these are just some statistics on, sort of, mental health, in the workplace, and in general. So again, I'll go more into that next week as well. I think the big piece is, is that the return on investment in, sort of. Jodi Lynn Morris: Sort of looking at mental health, does come back, and is really quite important. Jodi Lynn Morris: Go ahead, Kurt. Curt Hammond (he/him): Thanks. Jodi Lynn Morris: We will be also looking at practical strategies. I've put them here, I'm not going to go into them, but these are sort of, the top 5, as it were. There's lots, but we will sort of be… these will be the ones that we will be focusing on next week, and I'll even narrow that down next week to sort of my top two or three. Curt Hammond (he/him): Excellent. Jodi Lynn Morris: So, again, I'm just going to encourage everyone to consider, rather than looking at challenges, we're going to start to shift the language and make some differentials around what is the opportunity, right? And where could there be opportunity? And to see it both reflectively from when you've been through a challenge, but also as you face a challenge. Jodi Lynn Morris: So again, what is the opportunity? We're going to look at expanding the strategies within the workplace, both individually and as an organization. What can you do? Jodi Lynn Morris: And then I'd like you… I'm going to challenge you to choose a strategy to integrate into your own work and personal life. You may be doing something, and I'm going to encourage you to sort of make… maybe take it one step, further. Wellness is a shared responsibility, so if we're role modeling, that would be a key component as well for the team. Jodi Lynn Morris: Thanks! Jodi Lynn Morris: That's it. Curt Hammond (he/him): Awesome. Curt Hammond (he/him): And… Curt Hammond (he/him): Thanks, Jordan. I love this bouncing forward. That's a new concept for me. I consider that stolen. I love it. That's super smart. What a neat way to frame that up. Thank you so much, Jody Lynn. I really appreciate that. Curt Hammond (he/him): keep your… write down your questions, grab your insights, we're gonna hear from Kevin, and then we're gonna spend the rest of our time unpacking these two smart conversations together, so as you're… Curt Hammond (he/him): As we're listening to Kevin, I invite you to write down some of your questions and or throw them into the chat. Let me formally introduce Kevin Matsui, who is Managing Director at Care AI at the University of Guelph. Curt Hammond (he/him): I've had the pleasure of connecting with Kevin a couple of times, and he knows his stuff here. I'm really looking forward to learning with him today. So, Kevin leads the efforts to grow the artificial intelligence, machine learning, and deep learning community on campus at the University of Guelph. Curt Hammond (he/him): Now, Kevin has spent many years in the tech and software industry in a variety of management roles, including consulting, technical support. Curt Hammond (he/him): and training. Curt Hammond (he/him): And he has an educational background in engineering and business. And my reflection is that Kevin's really approaching the technology with a people lens, which is very similar to our approach at Four Simple Words as well. So I'm really looking forward to hearing Kevin kind of ground us in this mythical, magical thing called AI, and how we could maybe start using that in our organization. So Kevin, thanks so much. Curt Hammond (he/him): For being with us today, let's give Kevin a warm oak tree welcome. Round of applause for Kevin, yay! Excellent. Kevin, over to you. Thanks for sharing your knowledge today. Kevin Matsui: Perfect. Thanks very much, Kurt. Very happy to be here, and I'll go through this information fairly quickly, and hopefully we can just talk about it a little bit. So… Kevin Matsui: I think one of the main points about AI is that people often think it was invented in November of 2022, but really, it goes back to the 1950s, and even the technology that people are most excited about is fundamentally been around for almost 15 years. So… Kevin Matsui: It has existed for a while, but it's really the idea of conscious interaction is what's changed in the last few years. Kevin Matsui: So, even if you think of, sort of, the economic impact of AI, Kevin Matsui: You know, it's really the generative AI, so this is the ChatGPT, the Gemini, Copilot, Claude, all these sort of tools you hear about. Kevin Matsui: That's really only a fraction. It's really about, I would say, somewhere between, I don't know, like, if you think roughly 20% of the AI activity globally, even if you sort of assume that these numbers are a bit inflated because they come from McKinsey, who's a consulting firm, wants to sort of hype things up. But if you think of the ratios as being roughly accurate, a lot of the AI activity, you don't actually see. It's under the hood, it's behind the scenes, it's when you buy something from Amazon. Kevin Matsui: or you have a song recommended by Spotify, this is all AI technology that's sort of operating under the hood. Kevin Matsui: You know, so I think, you know, we talk generative AI, and then, you know, what are the motivations for general use? And I really think it's, in many contexts, it's, you know, conserving your creative or mental energy for more important tasks, like… Kevin Matsui: nobody really wants to be the… what I describe as the world's greatest meeting minute taker, things like that, right? Like, you want to offload these type of tasks. Kevin Matsui: Speed allows you to do things quickly, and the idea of not getting stuck, right? Like, if… or even to do things that might otherwise be hard to do quickly, like, whether it's beyond somebody's skill set, in terms of maybe they have limited skills within Excel or other types of tools, these are the kind of things that you can kind of essentially automate. Kevin Matsui: So if you're thinking about scaling or use cases, so if you… I kind of look at it metaphorically as, if you think of ChatGPT, or Microsoft Copilot, or Google Gemini, or Anthropics Cloud, these are, like, power tools, right? Like, they're improving your individual productivity. Kevin Matsui: Ultimately, as an organization, you're going to need to sort of automate these things and use what are called agents and custom chatbots and things like that to really scale them out or get a more significant benefit beyond individual productivity. But individual productivity is certainly important, and if ultimately you can unlock your data and access that, that's going to be extremely valuable to you as well, ultimately. Kevin Matsui: So if you think of AI stressors, you know, I think things that are sort of important on that front are, it's, you know, things like AI tool selection. So what tools are you using, and what do you need to be conscious of doing? So whether that's different settings, like security settings, or… Kevin Matsui: what shouldn't you put into the, you know, the, into, into ChatGPT, you know, what's okay to put in? These are kind of the things that… where it's useful to have, sort of, guidance or policies, because Kevin Matsui: People often confuse what's the difference between paid versions, enterprise versions, and free versions of these different tools. And they… sometimes people think their data is safe, or things like that, but it's actually being shared. So, you know, there's a level of security that you want to do and be aware of. Kevin Matsui: other things that help organization is, you know, when to use and not to use AI, not just from a technical perspective, but from an authenticity perspective. Like, if you're doing something, you know, if you want to lend a voice to something that is, you know, is a very sensitive topic, or very important to the organization. Kevin Matsui: you know, whether the AI could do it and not be detected, you might not want to do it just from the authenticity of the voice that you want to employ. And then, you know, there are other cases where, you know, there are other implications of what you're doing. Maybe there's issues of, Kevin Matsui: you know, how AI was developed, or things like that. So, you know, you have to determine what policies or what limits you want to put on it as an organization, but these are all sort of helpful to sort of identify, because these are things that make it more stressful for people to use when they're uncertain, when they don't know what they should do. Kevin Matsui: So, policies. We talk about shadow AI and shadow IT, and what this means is people bringing their own devices to work, and let's say using ChatGPT on their phone or something like that, which is not really sanctioned. Kevin Matsui: necessarily by your organization. So these are the kind of things you need to be concerned about. Data privacy in terms of Kevin Matsui: you know, personally identifiable information and security, who has access to what, and what information people are putting into it. And then, I think another important aspect that people are certainly concerned about is all the… Kevin Matsui: elements of AI ethics, you know, in terms of sustainability, bias, transparency. So, things like energy use. These are all legitimate concerns on that, so it's best to frame these as well, so that people have an understanding of those impacts. Kevin Matsui: So they are, you know, not using AI frivolously, but using it beneficially. So, those are some of the things that I think are helpful from a de-stressing standpoint, by having some clear indicators of what you're doing. Kevin Matsui: But many companies, like, I think a recent MIK study demonstrated that even, like, a lot of these big companies in the US, 95% of the AI pilots had failed, right? So that's not a high success rate kind of thing, right? So, I think one needs to be cautious and really think about what you want to do. Kevin Matsui: I have some other examples, but I don't… maybe talk about just one thing about your… maybe your AI strategy fitting your goal, and then also maybe the idea of… Kevin Matsui: You want to think of AI as a solution, but you don't want to be a solution looking for a problem, right? Like, you want to identify what's really important to your organization, what processes you have, and then really look at AI as being a potential solution to those problems, not going around looking, okay, we've got AI, now we can solve all these problems, but we don't know what the problems are. So I think everybody really knows their organizations well. Kevin Matsui: that's the thing I think I would recommend focusing on. So, lots of different things, making sure your strategy fits your service model, and Kevin Matsui: that's about it. So, anyways, my email's there, feel free to reach out, mention, you know, where you, met, just in the subject line, or something like that, just so I… I immediately latch onto that, but happy to help people out, and… and, Kevin Matsui: You know, with that, that's pretty much… that's the very, abbreviated version of what Kevin Matsui: But I think some… some things to consider for today. Curt Hammond (he/him): Some really great stuff in there, Kevin. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Curt Hammond (he/him): And I'm gonna invite, I got a couple questions to get us going for Kevin and Jody. I invite you to jump into the chat with your questions, or… I'm gonna find your beautiful faces again so I can see everybody, and then welcome you to just unmute as well. Curt Hammond (he/him): And, jump in. Kevin, do you mind stop sharing your screen? Kevin Matsui: I was just about to do that. Curt Hammond (he/him): Super. Thanks very much, my friend. Thank you. There we are. There, I can see everybody. Curt Hammond (he/him): So Kevin and Jody, thanks so much. You know what I'm hearing from both of you is that when we start thinking about our team wellness. Curt Hammond (he/him): and how adapting new technologies, AI in particular, these are cultural conversations, are they not? Like, we need to think about the cultures that we have around team well-being and adoption of new technologies. And I'm wondering, could you just reflect, maybe, on the presentations you've had, and then Curt Hammond (he/him): Pull on one another. Curt Hammond (he/him): let's stretch… stretch test this together. Like, I think these conversations start… Curt Hammond (he/him): at a cultural level, and then we get into the weeds on implementation and technology. Does that make sense? Does that kind of resonate with either one of you? Kevin Matsui: Yeah, I think it's important. Like, I think you're… just like any technology or any process, you have to make sure you have alignment with the values of your organization, so I definitely think that's important. And the idea of considering, you know, people's, you know, wellness and their well-being overall is an important part of adoption as well. Jodi Lynn Morris: Yeah, I would agree. Yeah, I would agree that it is a cultural conversation, right? It's sort of what… what is the… the nature and the process in which things are accomplished in an organization? And again, that's communication and, you know, being open, and… Jodi Lynn Morris: Again, not seeing it as… Jodi Lynn Morris: not seeing anything as neces… it's an opportunity, right? Like, where is the… again, I prefer that word over challenge, and so, yeah, it's about communication and sort of connecting and making… and I agree with Kevin that sort of it needs to align with kind of what the value… the values of the organization are as well. Curt Hammond (he/him): So building on that, and this is something we're exploring at Forcible Words, is a mindset around mattering and a mindset around AI. Like, it really does start there for us as organizations. And I'm wondering, Curt Hammond (he/him): what are some ways we could be experimenting? Because a mindset allows us to, you know, dip our toe in the water a little bit and say, I'm going to try this without necessarily reinventing anything. So I'm wondering, what are some practical, easy ways, and you both spoke to this a bit, but maybe a couple examples, on how we could be experimenting or stretching Curt Hammond (he/him): Our mindsets around this idea of. Curt Hammond (he/him): team wellness and AI, and is there any cross-pollination there? So how can we be stretching ourselves to think about just some places we can be experimenting a little bit? Curt Hammond (he/him): Well, I think I'm happy to sort of go first. Jodi Lynn Morris: I think that with… when you're looking at, sort of, workplace wellness and, sort of, team resilience, it's about connection. Jodi Lynn Morris: and opportunities to connect, right? And so, Jodi Lynn Morris: the pandemic did many things, one of which sort of has put a lot of us into this virtual world. So if you have an opportunity to connect in person, I do strongly encourage that. Jodi Lynn Morris: Or, I mean, secondary… I mean, next on my list would be virtually. But again, sort of having genuine conversation, and connection with each other, and outside of the role of potentially sort of manager, staff, those components, because we're all human, and we're all sort of getting through this day by day, and so that, I think, is really important, around connection. Jodi Lynn Morris: I think the other piece is to be open, to sort of new ideas and sort of what, Jodi Lynn Morris: what is possible. For example, today's presentation, I had to plug into ChatGPT to provide a summary from my larger presentation next week. Jodi Lynn Morris: It was a busy week last week, I did not have an opportunity, and so part of it is experimenting and being open with is what… Jodi Lynn Morris: It generates back to me, does it resonate? Is it real, is it right, is it correct? All of those pieces. Jodi Lynn Morris: And then it created speaker notes. Not that I used them, not that… not that, sort of, you know, it was helpful, and I did review them. Jodi Lynn Morris: And I think that, sort of, organizationally, sort of being open to sort of exploring, kind of, what is possible. Jodi Lynn Morris: Especially when we think of, sort of, Kevin's statement around, Jodi Lynn Morris: You know, being genuine, being connected to the values, and so on. Curt Hammond (he/him): Font. I love that. Jody, thanks. Kevin, you want to jump in on that one? Kevin Matsui: Well, I think, you know, if you look at it from the standpoint of… think of workloads, or what's causing you stress? Is it, you know, is it the volume of activity? So maybe you could target Kevin Matsui: AI at, you know, coming up with things that are dealing with things in a way that sort of knocks down your pile a little bit to free up a little bit of time. Maybe things that Kevin Matsui: you know, so you keep things moving, right? Like, just so you don't have the stress of things building up, you know, get things done quickly. You know, you have some notes from a meeting. Kevin Matsui: maybe let the AI, you know. Kevin Matsui: you know, put that into some form that you can get out quickly, so that get things off your plate. Possibly scheduling, or just different things that, you know, if you look at your things that Kevin Matsui: you know, in terms of priorities, that things that might be able… things that you could like to get off your plate, reduce your workload, those are things that are things that I think might help. So, you know, instead of… Kevin Matsui: adding things to your thing. Oh, I could use, you know, I could use, Kevin Matsui: a generative AI tool to generate pictures of something, right? Like, don't create work for yourself. Try and knock your workload down by using AI. Don't add things that maybe aren't adding value to the process. You could maybe do that once you've sort of got things under control, but really focus on maybe improving your productivity or reducing Kevin Matsui: the things that may be stressed you before you, add more AI into your interior process. Curt Hammond (he/him): Yeah, so let's… let's go deep… a bit deeper on that, Kevin, and we've got a question from Mira here in the chat. I think it's a good one, and I think it takes us to this… Curt Hammond (he/him): OMG, I don't know where to start, and I don't fully understand the risks, right? Like, it's a big… Curt Hammond (he/him): And I'm seeing some nodding heads there. So, Mira, I'm gonna just read your question out, and then I'll start with Kevin, then Jody, over to you, and then I welcome people to jump in on this. When talking about AI, the value of data and client privacy is essential to everybody. I don't feel I know enough about the hazards and risks Curt Hammond (he/him): to properly adapt the tools. And we hear this all the time from large and small enterprise, you know. Curt Hammond (he/him): small clients and large enterprises, oh, like, what are the risks here? So, Kevin, can you give us some… Curt Hammond (he/him): Tips or ideas on how we might… Curt Hammond (he/him): Again, build some systems and process around understanding the risks, mitigating them, to allow us to take full advantage of that. Kevin Matsui: Sure, I mean, I think one… if one adopts a cautious approach, I think that's sort of pragmatic, right? Because then you don't have to be as cognizant of if you're using an enterprise version, which provides more data protection and things like that. So, let's say you're using the free version of ChatGPT. Kevin Matsui: just assume you're posting stuff on the internet, essentially, is what you're doing. So… Kevin Matsui: Are you comfortable posting that information on the internet? If that's the case, if there's nothing really private, or it's just sort of conceptual, doesn't really identify anybody specifically. Kevin Matsui: then you can put it back into the, let's say, the free version of ChatGPT or Gemini, and it, you know. Kevin Matsui: So that's something to be, you know, conscious of. Kevin Matsui: There are settings within these tools that allow you to sort of turn off the elements of Kevin Matsui: your data being used for training, but there are some also lawsuits in the US. So, if you assume that all your data is being stored, that's the other thing, right? So, it's, you know, even if you check, like, a temporary chat or things like that, your data's still being stored. It persists, right? So, just assume that it's almost like Kevin Matsui: posting something on the internet, or there's the element of a training data being exposed, your data being used for training, there's always the issue of a data breach as well, kind of thing. So I think if you think of it cautiously, and then, depending on the tools you have, you can kind of ramp that up. But if you think about it Kevin Matsui: Don't post anything, don't use any… don't put anything in there that you would… Kevin Matsui: be concerned about exposing, is what I would say. Curt Hammond (he/him): Yeah. Curt Hammond (he/him): Excellent. Jody Lynn, just before you jump in, Mira, I saw you were raising your hand there. Did I misinterpret your question there, or did you want to jump in correctly? Mira Clarke, Action Read: No, I was also gonna add that if there was some kind of online, training that… maybe free training that people know of, with regard to those… that question, to maybe share it in the chat, that… that is reputable. Mira Clarke, Action Read: That would be really helpful. Curt Hammond (he/him): Yeah, we'll be touching a bit on this in our third session with my good friend and very smart colleague, Sean Yeo. We're going to be talking about this Plus AI mindset that we're thinking about, that builds on everything that Kevin's saying here, and then getting into that a bit, and we'll be exploring some other training possibilities there as well, so… Curt Hammond (he/him): Absolutely. So, great question. Jolene, do you want to jump on this, either from that… Curt Hammond (he/him): You know, again, and so important to the work you do. Curt Hammond (he/him): privacy of… of client data. Do you want to jump in on this question around how we… how we step into this and start adapting? Jodi Lynn Morris: Yeah, so, I mean, we're bound by many, many privacy and confidentiality rules in our work, and so we don't put anything… we don't utilize, Jodi Lynn Morris: any generative AI. There is, I mean, not at our organization, but there is, sort of, Scribe, AI Scribe, Jodi Lynn Morris: That is coming along in our field, and sort of looking at, Jodi Lynn Morris: how that, like Kevin was talking about, like that minute taker of sessions and so on, there is some concerns because, again, where are those recordings stored? What happens with them? Sort of where does that information go? So we're, again, sort of as… Jodi Lynn Morris: as a sector, I think we're trying to figure out, sort of, what are some of those ethics pieces, as well as privacy pieces, to that work, and to that added potential asset to the work, right? I mean, there's no. Curt Hammond (he/him): Excuse me. Jodi Lynn Morris: the use of a scribe, sort of, you know, I know for me, it takes me about 20 to 25 minutes to write a note after a session. Jodi Lynn Morris: And so to get 20 or 25 minutes… 20 minutes back in my day after every session would sort of be… Jodi Lynn Morris: quite life-changing. And so, but what does ethically… like, again, we would be back to, sort of, what are the privacy pieces, what are the ethics around that? I mean, clients need to be comfortable with it, and I… that's the other, sort of, aspect for us, is sort of as we move forward, are clients going to be okay with this? Jodi Lynn Morris: Are they going to be receptive? And how do we then sort of also manage their worries and fears? Because we may, if they're worried about it, then we may not have access to it. Jodi Lynn Morris: Right? And so then, we're back to 20 to 25 minute notes. Curt Hammond (he/him): Right, right, right. Excellent observations. Questions from… from those of us listening in? Any questions or reflections you'd like to share on building teams of resilience, how we're adapting new technologies, and maybe the crossover between the two? Anneli Segura: I'll start. My name's Anna Lee, I'm the Executive Director of Big Brothers Big Sisters of Center Wellington, so thanks for having me today. One of the things that keep popping up in my head is, boundaries. Anneli Segura: Right? Boundaries for your team, boundaries around AI, how does that cross over? Yeah, it could be a very, very useful tool, but that's one of the things, sort of, how do we… Anneli Segura: Integrate both of these things, while still being ethically… Anneli Segura: you know, using what we should be in the way that we're supposed to be. My daughter is a TA for a graduate program at the University of Montana for one of her professors, and she's gotten very adept at looking at student papers and saying, this was totally AI-generated. Anneli Segura: So, how do we make that crossover so that it's ethically, morally okay? Anneli Segura: And that we're still accomplishing what we need to accomplish, right? Curt Hammond (he/him): Yeah. Curt Hammond (he/him): Let me… so I'll give Jody Lynn and Kevin a quick minute to reflect on that question. That speaks to… that's the very cultural component to this, right? What is our culture and our relationship with this technology, and how it's going to impact our team well-being? So how do we do set… how do we set those boundaries around data, around usage? Curt Hammond (he/him): The last thing we want is, to Kevin's language, is that shadow usage, right? Curt Hammond (he/him): And we don't want someone using their personal computer, emailing it to their phone, and then cutting and pasting it into our systems, right? So we need to shine a light on this and establish those boundaries. I think it's a really good question, Annalie. Kevin and Jody Lynn, do you want to jump in with. Kevin Matsui: Fuck. Curt Hammond (he/him): Any reflections there? Kevin Matsui: There's a very specific name for what you're talking about in AI. We call that the alignment problem. Kevin Matsui: Or… and that's where you align your AI systems with your human values, and then you could argue it's the alignment problems, alignment problem, in terms of deciding what human values you want to align it with as well. So that is something as an organization that Kevin Matsui: or your values of the organization, because it's not just what you can do with AI, it's what you should do, and what your organization believes should be done. And that could differ from organization to organization, and situation to situation, and even individual to individual. So… Kevin Matsui: It's good to create a framework around what, you know, these are the kind of discussions you want to have to sort of establish what Kevin Matsui: what you want done as an organization, you know, even beyond data privacy and the tools that you're using, conceptually or philosophically, what you want to do. So that's what we call the alignment problem, essentially. Curt Hammond (he/him): Juglyn? Jodi Lynn Morris: Yeah, I think that when it comes to, sort of, mental health and workplace wellness, I think there's lots, that can be done that potentially, sort of, managers feel that, sort of, if I don't talk about it, it'll just go away, potentially. Jodi Lynn Morris: And so… Jodi Lynn Morris: I would encourage having conversation and maybe changing language and sort of creating different ways of asking a question that sort of supports, the boundary. Jodi Lynn Morris: and yet also sort of support staff as well. And so I think that there's, it's almost… it almost sometimes feels like a fear, and I know I experienced that myself as sort of a supervisor, is that, you know, I don't want to ask, or what can I ask? And I think that by changing language, or changing the way you come at something, in an interaction, can sort of support that. Curt Hammond (he/him): Excellent. Does that… does that help, Annalie? Anneli Segura: Yes, thank you. Curt Hammond (he/him): Excellent. Let me plant another seed related to both of these, and then we'll have time for one more question. The gift of AI is my ability to ask better questions. Curt Hammond (he/him): Answers are finite, but when… with AI, I can really start asking different questions and probing things in different ways around boundaries, around privacy usage. I invite us to think about just the exponential possibilities of being able to ask questions and push back on those answers. Curt Hammond (he/him): and continually ask and refine better questions. So again, building on what Kevin's talking about there around the alignment piece. Curt Hammond (he/him): The gift of AI isn't so much the answers, it's my ability to reimagine and ask different questions. I want to plant that seed, and I think that relates to both how we build teams that are welcoming and focused on our well-being, and how we adapt new technologies. Time for one more question from the floor. Anyone want to jump in? Curt Hammond (he/him): With a comment or a reflection? Kevin Matsui: I think there's another question in the chat, I suppose, there. Curt Hammond (he/him): Excellent, you're hired, Kevin, thank you. Curt Hammond (he/him): Perfect, I didn't see that. Yes, thank you. So, Sarah's asking around the shadow AI. Yeah, it's a big con… it's a great conversation, and it's one we need to be aware of. I think the question, and maybe we'll start with you, Kevin, any suggestions for policy templates or guidance for this? Curt Hammond (he/him): Other than ChatGPT, yeah, like, around, again, that cultural framework. So, Kevin, where would you point us, or what do you suggest as we start to think about building systems to empower rather than, hold us back? Kevin Matsui: I think… I just see it as a natural extension of your, sort of, acceptable use, or your IT policies. Kevin Matsui: That can be, like, essentially the starting point, and you can add on from there. Because, you know, there are certain things that you permit to prevent, you know, phishing, attacks, or other types of things to protect your data, protect your systems, so… Kevin Matsui: That would be a starting point, and I would extend from there, in terms of, you know, what you should do. Kevin Matsui: there are different sort of things that… like, there are so many things that are dependent on the tools that you use, so you kind of have to customize it based on what tools you've selected, what security you should employ, but it's sort of a natural extension of what IT policies you have in place. Sarah Haanstra: Are there any sort of, like, thought leaders or, even associations that are weighing in on this in real time? Sarah Haanstra: Or creating briefing reports, or just things, like, other than… because I was kind of kidding about chat GPT, like, maybe, but also, like, I want to know, like, who are considered the experts on this, especially at the rate that it might be changing, and what is considered Sarah Haanstra: you know, what are the key things that you'd want to have in any policy related to AI? For example, the shadow AI concept Sarah Haanstra: I mean, I can see it happening, but the term itself was new to me. So there… therefore, that new concept that I may not have known about if I hadn't attended today, I'm curious, where would I… where would I learn about something like that, and be kind of understanding what the… the newest trends are in this area? Kevin Matsui: Yeah, sure, there's, like, a… there's a bit of a shortage of time here, but there's a number… and I could share this with the group as well, like, some… a number of resources that might be useful, and some… just sort of some general thoughts on security and what might be helpful, starting points on that, but… Curt Hammond (he/him): Yeah, that'd be great, Kevin, if you want to share that. And our commitment from Oak Tree and the Learning Lab is that we're going to take all three sessions, we're going to do a summary, and send that to everyone along with links to the video. So if you've seen one or three. Curt Hammond (he/him): you'll have that feedback. Kevin's going to get us some thoughts. We're also going to trip into this a little bit in our Session 3 with Sean. Sean's got some Curt Hammond (he/him): really good insights. There's lots happening in the corporate world. What you've challenged me today, Sarah, is could we find something similar Curt Hammond (he/him): for… in a not-for-profit environment. I think that's really interesting, so thank you for that push. We'll see what we can do for session number three. Curt Hammond (he/him): Speaking of which, and I want to be really respectful of our time, next week, it'll be… I invite you to come back and spend a full hour with Jodi Lin. We're going to take a deeper dive on her reflections around building, resilience in our teams and thinking about Curt Hammond (he/him): what that culture looks like. The week after that, which is the 20… he says, looking at his notes, 29th, we're gonna have Sean Yeoh from our 4 Simple Words team Curt Hammond (he/him): Stepping more into this AI conversation, thinking about a plus AI mindset, we'll introduce you to that, and then we're also going to have some practical tools and suggestions for how you can start experimenting with this in your workplace in safe and meaningful ways. So… Curt Hammond (he/him): We're almost out of time. Let's give a round of applause to our two speakers. Thank you very much, Kevin and Jody Lin, for sharing your wisdom, as always. I want to extend that gratitude to Will for pulling us all together. Curt Hammond (he/him): For OCH… for these… for these sessions, and then for the good work Curt Hammond (he/him): of Oak Tree, and on behalf of everyone from Oak Tree, let's leave you with this. Absolute gratitude and appreciation for the good work you are doing in your organizations. We hear and see and underst… well, we don't understand because we're not… Curt Hammond (he/him): as close to it as you are, but we know these are challenging times, and the goal of Oak Tree this year, to Will's point, was to Curt Hammond (he/him): support you in where you and your teams are at, and we're looking forward to going through those applications, and hopefully this training is a benefit as well. So this is going to be available to everyone after the third session, and if you feel there's people in your world that would benefit. Curt Hammond (he/him): we would, welcome you to share that. So, with that, everyone, thank you very much for your time and insights. A pleasure, and look forward to seeing you next Wednesday, 10 o'clock. Have a deep dive with Jody Lin.